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Forums  > Writers/Builders  > Public Writers/Builders Forum  > Asashi, code, philosophy, religion, the warior.     Display using: Flat View Threaded View   Oldest to newest Newest to oldest Previous Thread :: Next Thread   Author  Thread: Asashi, code, philosophy, religion, the warior.  Ch'ang Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Total Posts: 492 Send PM   Asashi, code, philosophy, religion, the warior. Posted: 10 Mar 2004 08:34 PM Asashi Philosophy and Religion There are primarily 2 sects inside Asashi: the philosophical and religious sects, similar to the broad divisions seen in other paths like druids and rangers. They both studied nature, but for different reasons. The philosophical Asashi monk, who saw the teachings of Elbereth as a guide for life that is essentially deity-independent, studied nature to look for harmony. The religious Asashi monks, who believed strongly in a pantheon of greater and lesser gods, studied it to look for ways to change the course of nature (alchemy), including to prolong life. The philosophical school of Asashi has its roots in the writings of Grandmaster Lie-Kwa, who spurned the world to find bliss. According to legend, he was recognized as he left the kingdom, where the border guard requested Tsay Ho write down the essence of his wisdom. The resulting book is known as the Tao Te Ching, or Book of the Way. In essence, the knowable universe is composed of opposite components, whether physical (hard/soft; dark/light), moral (good/bad), or biological (male/female), which may be classed as either YONG or YING. When combined, existence is produced, and is manifest as TAI. Neither ying nor yong can exist independently . The symbol of Tai is the "fish symbol" within which are two small dots, and around which are a pair of arrows, symbolizing dynamic interaction. The philosophical Asashi Monks are largely atheistic, looking to nature for the secrets to harmony and bliss. As a result, Asashi martial artists mimicked animals in their quest for martial arts techniques, and many styles, including mantis, snake, and some tiger, show distinct patterns of nature mimicry. However, the theistic sects of these monks believed that by understanding the harmony of nature, you could alter nature. In addition to alchemy, theistic monks developed complicated schools of ceremonial magic, and developed other the martial arts styles Why search around when the answer is within you...?  Ch'ang Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Total Posts: 492 Send PM   The three paths and the code Posted: 10 Mar 2004 08:35 PM The three paths There are essentially 3 ways of seeing life: • Comun Path • Seeking Path • Enlightned Path The comun path was the path of the common man, the life of one unaware or unprepared to develop his spiritual self. The worker who struggles merely to survive is not seen as low or lowly, but as one not yet awake enough to see beyond the immediate needs of food, clothing, and shelter. The enlightned path is the religious sect which combined the Vives pantheon of gods and goddesses, this path tries to incorporate the living body with a sense of its god-self, to awaken the spiritual or divine from within reaching an enlightment state. The seeking path it is a belief that we live in the here and now and should act and think accordingly. This path is centered on the basic understandings of life as revealed by Grandmaster Lie-Kwa, the first Asashi monk. These teachings include the Four Noble Truths about life. The first truth is that there is pain, suffering, old age, and death in life. These transient factors affect us all, and are part of the reality that defines life. The second truth states that desire for wealth, health, love, money, and life all cause suffering. This is because we cannot have everything we want, and denial is a source of pain. The third truth simply states that extinction of desire ceases pain and suffering; killing the ego releases one from wants. The fourth truth says that adherence to the Asashi guide commandment that leads one to the extinction of desire. These are not an obligation, though they lead one to reach a higher level, and should be present in a monks mind all the time. Asashi commandments 1. Right Views: ask yourself "why do I do what I do?" Examine your motives, your goals. No action should be mindless; a spiritual person knows why he acts. 2. Right Resolve: are you prepared for the task at hand? What are your preparations of thought, speech, motivation? Is the task at hand worthy of your time and effort? 3. Right Speech: words are powerful; do you use them wisely? Careless words may hurt others, open yourself to attack. Asashi monks are aware of the power of words and the thought-entities they can invoke. 4. Right Livelihood: Asashi Monks believe that work is a manifestation of spiritual development. Enlightenment is difficult to achieve if you are in the wrong occupation for you. The choice of career is important, and Asashi monks believe that the choice must come from within, not from "following in the family footsteps"--that is, unless you truly find fulfillment in that business. To a Asashi Monk, a large part of your physical self IS what you do. One who loves trees would probably never be a good woodcrafter, though he would suceed in gardening. 5. Right Effort: having embarked on a path, are you giving the journey the logistical and emotional support it needs to be accomplished. Asashi Monk frowns on half-hearted efforts, failure is not something to be shamed of, though failure due to lack of efford to acomplish it is one of the worse things for an Asashi monk. 6. Right Attention: are you giving enough attention to yourself, to gauge your moods and relationships to be sure you are still on the right path for you? If you cannot hear yourself, how well can you hear others? Meditation must be a constant, every Asashi monk must spend at least 3 hours everyday meditating about his own actions, trying to find a better way, a diferent conduct, after all the balance inside that will lead to the perfect self. 7. Right Meditation: have you the discipline to fully focus on the task at hand? You need not be single-minded; life is, after all, made of many experiences and relationships. But the task at hand deserves your full mindfulness, or it is unimportant. Can you tell which? Above all, the Grandmaster Lie-Kwa left his disciples, many were women, with a last lesson that underscores all his teachings. When asked by one what was the TRUE way to enlightenment, the Grandmaster Lie-Kwa replied, "Be your own light, your own refuge. Believe only that which you test for yourself. Do not accept authority merely because it comes from a great man, or is written in a sacred book, for truth is different for each man and woman." In short, Asashis rejects the blind obedience of the "faithful," and prefers its practitioners to know life from experiencing it in all its glory and despair. Why search around when the answer is within you...?  Ch'ang Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Total Posts: 492 Send PM   Lie-Kwa book Posted: 10 Mar 2004 08:38 PM First, Grandmaster Lie-Kwa message is simple: The mind is the all. Grandmaster Lie-Kwa rephrases the four noble truths and eightfold path as the core reality to seekers of enlightenment--simple enough concepts--but places the entirety of becoming (or rather recognizing the state of being) enlightened on the individual. In a sweeping gesture he urges self-motivation, self-awareness, and self-recognition at the expense of hierarchical "orders" of monks and token ceremonies. Cut the extraneous, he goads, ignore illusions, and go for the core which is already there. Certainly such a philosophy is anathema to practices that perpetuate the illusion that someone else can enlighten you. Second, Grandmaster Lie-Kwa left the disciple considerable latitude in how to live, as did Shakyamuni himself. He did not require monks to be celibate, to fast, or perform rites of asceticism, nor was the "priesthood" limited to males. Quite the contrary, he embraced the human condition as the starting point from which all "higher" revelations would spring. Shaolin remains unique in allowing its members this degree of freedom . In Grandmaster Lie-Kwa 's message of simplicity (but not specifically denial), he limits the more embellished aspects of sectarian religious practice and organization. "The Outline of Practice" There are many roads that lead to the Way, but these contain but two common features: recognition and practice. By recognition is meant that meditation reveals the truth that all living things share a common nature, a nature concealed by the veils of illusion. Those who shun illusion for reality, who meditate on walls and the loss of self and other, on the unity of mortal and sage, and are undeterred by written holy words are in accord with the faculty of reason. Lacking motion and effort, they embrace reason. By practice it is meant the participation and acceptance of the Four Noble Truths: suffering, adapting, non-attachment, and practicing the Dharma. First comes suffering. When followers of the Way suffer, they should recall that in the countless previous incarnations they have been deterred from the path, sometimes becoming trivial and angry even without cause. The suffering in this life is a punishment, but also an opportunity to exercise what I have learned from past lives. Men and gods are equally unable to see where a seed may bear fruit. I accept this suffering as a challenge and with an open heart. In recognizing suffering, you enter onto the path to the Way. Second, adapt to your conditions. Mortals are ruled by their surroundings, not by themselves. All we experience depends upon surroundings. If we reap a reward or great boon, it is the fruit of a seed we planted long ago. Eventually, it will end. Do not delight in these boons, for what is the point? In a mind unmoved by reward and setback, the journey on the path continues. Third, seek no attachments. Mortals delude themselves. They seek to possess things, always searching for something. But enlightened ones wake up and choose reason over habit. They focus on the Way and their bodies follow them through each season. The world offers only emptiness, with nothing worth desiring. Disaster and Prosperity constantly trade places. To live in the three realms is to stay in a house on fire. To have a body is to experience suffering. Does any body have peace? Those who see past illusion are detached, and neither imagine nor seek. The sutras2 teach that to seek is to suffer, to seek not is to have bliss. In not seeking, you follow the path. Fourth, practice the Dharma, the reality teaching all spirits are pure. All illusion is dropped. Duality does not exist. Subject and object do not exist. The sacred texts say the Dharma has no being because it is free from the attachment to being; the Dharma has no self because it is free from the attachment to self. Those who understand this truth wisely practice the path. They know that the things that are real do not include greed and envy, and give themselves with their bodies, minds, and spirits. They share material things in charity, with gladness, with no vanity or thought of giver or taker of the gift. In this way they teach others without becoming attached. This allows them to help others see and enjoy the path to enlightenment. OOC this is a copy of an original text by a monk called Tamo Why search around when the answer is within you...?  Ch'ang Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Total Posts: 492 Send PM   Re: Lie-Kwa book Posted: 10 Mar 2004 08:41 PM Note: This is just a contribute, not an official guidline. At least yet, only the DMs will tell if it will be acepted or not. Why search around when the answer is within you...?  Sai Barris Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Total Posts: 127 Send PM   Re: Lie-Kwa book Posted: 10 Mar 2004 09:12 PM (((ooc))) i don't play a monk on the server, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. But, it seems to me that basing the Asashi code literally on pre-existing real world philosophy is suspect. I think it is unavoidable that *some* of the monks code is based on the classic Eastern texts, but to use all of it (especially the 8-fold path, direct quotations, etc) seems to be cheating the originality that can be found in RP. Let me give an analagous example. Imagine if all the deities that had been created on Vives were the Greek Gods or Norse ones. So all the clerics & paladins ran around swearing oaths to Zeus, or Odin, whomever (Crom!). It would seem kinda cheap, wouldn't it? Maybe cheap isn't the right word. Inauthentic? Now, are there some analogies? Sure. Kaldair Swiftfoot is a Loki archetype. Elbereth is a Dianna/Hera archetype. But they have distinctions that are purely Vives-esque (say "vives-esque" three times fast). I think you should shoot for the same here. Yes, the classic texts are the basis for the monk model. But NWN has already started to modify that w/ "Ka" or "Ki" (or "Kia", which is the economy model). Build from that...mess with it. Mix-up classic texts with Jackie Chan movies & yr own ideas. Try the 5-Style-Fist-that-Shatters-Undraeth (or something). Walk the Stepping Stones of Ka or somesuch instead of the 8 fold path. What I'm saying is, it seems like you've got great knowledge of the source material. I think you should get creative with it. (((/ ooc))) *Sai Barris arches an eyebrow* Sai Barris, Scamp-at-Large Cynda LeRange, Reporter, Port Royale Parson Droim Raine, Preacha o da Word o Swiftfoot  Vanadis Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Total Posts: 12 Send PM   Re: Lie-Kwa book Posted: 10 Mar 2004 09:16 PM - seconds Sai Barris' opinion. Having Lao Tzu and Confucius and Tai Chi and Yao Yao Ching in an original world is as bad as, dunno, having Drizzt or Legolas as a PC. ~Vanadis. "What race are you, my lovely Guardian Angel?" "I'm half-Sweetheart and half-Bitch. Don't push me."  Sai Barris Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Total Posts: 127 Send PM   Re: Lie-Kwa book Posted: 10 Mar 2004 09:17 PM umm...isnt there a Legolas in Vives? *smirks* Sai Barris, Scamp-at-Large Cynda LeRange, Reporter, Port Royale Parson Droim Raine, Preacha o da Word o Swiftfoot  Vanadis Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Total Posts: 12 Send PM   Re: Lie-Kwa book Posted: 10 Mar 2004 09:18 PM There is? *ducks* ~Vanadis. "What race are you, my lovely Guardian Angel?" "I'm half-Sweetheart and half-Bitch. Don't push me."  para Joined: 23 Oct 2003 Total Posts: 116 Send PM   Re: Lie-Kwa book Posted: 11 Mar 2004 04:51 AM indeed there is and hes played by Chang I believe ;) Eerel Swiftfoot Self proclaimed fasterest little person in da land Eerel's Story: http://vives.dyndns.org/vives/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=49386  Ch'ang Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Total Posts: 492 Send PM   Re: Lie-Kwa book Posted: 11 Mar 2004 06:11 AM This once again is a base to be worked. I didnt wrote it to be final version. Its just a base so the people working in the monk order like Dens, Sinjin, Luther and all the other guys including me can work basing it in something realy related with monks. Many times we tryed to do a code and always failed this time having a base I belive it might be eaiser. I didnt meant to have it like it is posted atm. So having your opinions -that in fact is the objective of this post- is a GREAT help, I am going to edit it right away since i realy agree and belive your ideas are correct. So please if your in IRC contact me point the things you think should be modified and that are less correct. Thanks for your help. This is for Vives not for me, after all Asashi is and was always a part of Vives not a player guild. Why search around when the answer is within you...?  Rasputin Joined: 11 Feb 2004 Total Posts: 213 Send PM   Re: Lie-Kwa book Posted: 11 Mar 2004 08:29 AM OOC: I'm going to let my secret out. Sinjin is based loosly on the book Bridge of Birds (Number Ten Ox) the Gunslinger Series (by Steven King) and the Cain kung-fu tv series of the 70's. I agree, the monk code should be something loosely based on an actual code, but not something that we cant "work with" as monks. Also, lets remember that not all monks necessarily come from or are trained at Asashi. One would think with the proper discipline, a monk could train over his journeys, or in the wilds, or in conjunction with another oath (although the PHB 3ed specifically prohibits Monks multi-classing as they were supposed to need full concentration and devotion. It was held that once you left the monk path you could never go back.) P.S Master Doujan make very wise joke. Humbly Submitted, Sinjin Kane  Dens Joined: 02 Jul 2003 Total Posts: 1221 Send PM   Re: Lie-Kwa book Posted: 11 Mar 2004 09:27 AM hmm.. first thing -I dont really see why this is in the RP forum ;) second.. these kind of things are posted int he writers forum.. and that's why it is out there.. the history/plot/background/etc of Vives are decided after starting there - and then passed trough the DMs and the Admins.. so I guess these are suggestions to the asashi ? these will be taken in consideration and IMO there will probably be more detailed infromation available for players about this (i.e I will try to get things out of the writers forum and will try to get things moving about the asashi) so I am not saying dont do this and everything.. but unlese these are offical approved details (like the info in the PHB). they should not get IG - and your chars wont act by them. I just want everyone to know it.. cuz fixing things chars said.. is much harder than just avoiding saying them untill you are sure they are 100% correct. Dens You are more than welcome to ignore my spelling mistakes =p  Ch'ang Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Total Posts: 492 Send PM   Re: Lie-Kwa book Posted: 11 Mar 2004 09:36 AM Note: This is just a contribute, not an official guidline. At least yet, only the DMs will tell if it will be acepted or not. Like I said just a contribute =) The final decision is always from DMs, specialy you I belive that take care fo monks =) Why search around when the answer is within you...?  Ch'ang Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Total Posts: 492 Send PM   Re: Lie-Kwa book Posted: 11 Mar 2004 06:42 PM I asked Alo to change this post to the writers forums since like Dens said it was in the wrong place hope you all can contribute to make a better code for Asashi. Why search around when the answer is within you...?  Arathon vives.dyndns.org Joined: 09 Feb 2003 Total Posts: 1885 Send PM   Re: Lie-Kwa book Posted: 12 Mar 2004 01:11 PM "- seconds Sai Barris' opinion. Having Lao Tzu and Confucius and Tai Chi and Yao Yao Ching in an original world is as bad as, dunno, having Drizzt or Legolas as a PC." - Vanadis. I have banned this account as I don't like people going under false names and assuming other identities with the sole purpose of flaming other community members...... what's more insulting it's blatantly obvious who is doing it, and to be honest not very intelligently. Please don't do this folks and ignore this bad apple. Thanks :D Ara Vives Screenshots!  Rutger_13 Joined: 15 Oct 2003 Total Posts: 108 Send PM   Re: Lie-Kwa book Posted: 12 Mar 2004 01:40 PM Well, the point has been raised about monks should not be multi classed and this is a real sticking point for many of us as we already are multiclass. I, for one, am not terribly enthusiastic about that rule being instituted at this late of a date having alreaedy devoted much time and effort into my character. Just wanted to make my feelings clear. Callia Rutger_13 --------------------------------------- Not all who wander are lost  Rasputin Joined: 11 Feb 2004 Total Posts: 213 Send PM   Re: Lie-Kwa book Posted: 12 Mar 2004 04:09 PM er. sorry Callia , I wasnt advocating a change to the old style of play. I was saying thats what it was in the 3ed for monk. Humbly Submitted, Sinjin Kane  Rasputin Joined: 11 Feb 2004 Total Posts: 213 Send PM   Re: Lie-Kwa book Posted: 12 Mar 2004 09:27 PM Thoughts about the allowance of monks to follow the god of their alignment... who do monks pray to if at all.. i.e. are they just meditating for the cleaning of the soul and mind ... and not to any entity or individual or perhaps are they praying to their ancestors or monk teachers? Im not sure if this is an individual question or a monk question on a whole that is part of the philosophy. Any suggestions / ideas? Humbly Submitted, Sinjin Kane  Ch'ang Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Total Posts: 492 Send PM   Re: Lie-Kwa book Posted: 12 Mar 2004 11:48 PM Theres one thing that I realy hate in how people play monks in NWN. The kind of monk we find in NWN, is the oriental kind of monk, they seek the perfect balance and are skilled fighters. Though all we see is european style starting by the robes.... In the deity thing well most part of these monks like shao-lin ones have a god that they follow, but in a diferent way, they try to learn with the teachings of this god and nothing else, since the path most be done alone, and the answers are within not without. Though some monks have some stronger conection with deities. Looking to the most part of the orders they dont have a deity, each one is free to folow the god they wish to or even no god at all. Why search around when the answer is within you...?  Aesir Joined: 29 Feb 2004 Total Posts: 252 Send PM   Re: Lie-Kwa book Posted: 16 Mar 2004 07:49 PM [Personal ramblings follow. Read only if bored. You have been warned.] D&D tends towards Northern European influence in it's back-drop. That is so out of place with even their own idea of what a monk was that I think they even removed the entire class from the ruleset at some point - only to put it back in, in some diluted "Monk for all Peoples" state. To Ch'ang's points, I think the strongest connection the class has with the Eastern archtype of a monk is that there's no requirement for a diety affiliation. This is important to me, as I see monks as drawing their power from within themselves. In contrast to the cleric or arcane mage that draws power from external sources. I would agree to the general point raised by Ch'ang though - that monks still do not entirely fit properly in the D&D / NWN world (though my biggest concern isn't necessarily the robes). In Vives, as players with control of how we play our characters, we can fix the biggest issues with the class as we see fit. For monks, I see three main archtypes: 1) northern European monastery halls, teeming with brown robes, pale faced men scribbling away at transcribing books, and such. Going forth periodically to spread some faith or other - usually by force. Quarterstaffs enter into the image at some point. 2) far Eastern monastic orders, training martial arts, purity of body, elimination of self. Some harmony with nature and balance in the universe thrown in for fun. Unarmed or armed with those wonderously neat weaponized versions of farm implements. Yes, I aerate the soil with the same Sai I poked you with. 3) near(er) Eastern hermits living in caves on top of mountains, in the classic Tibetan stereotype, or perhaps as that guy that Dr. Strange (of comic book fame) called "Oracle". This of course was back when comic books were called comic books and not Graphic Novels. But I digress... Somewhere between these stereotypes, I find my monk. Driven by his own will, striving to test his own limits and human frailty, seeking some inner peace by overcoming all of his own weaknesses (but will he ever find it?), trying to understand balance and presenting objective views, he's not quite a hermit but not quite part of society. He isn't comfortable as part of a larger order, because that would cause him to lose himself - the very thing he wishes to find. For that reason, I don't see him as part of Asashi - or perhaps he is just Ronin and hasn't found a suitable master. (That reminds me, I need to setup an appointment with Blue-Eyed Stranger to continue an earlier conversation - I'll have my people call his people). I hope there's room for this one to succeed in Vives, even if he's not directly affiliated with Asashi (or any competing monastic order). -æsir "The man that finds himself at a crossroads, and unsure of direction, is not lost. For in truth, all roads will carry him to the same destination - his fate. But it is the determined man that takes the next step." -Aren Previous Thread :: Next Thread  Page 1 of 1   Forums  > Writers/Builders  > Public Writers/Builders Forum  > Asashi, code, philosophy, religion, the warior.